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| User Info | Rescue Plan, Bailout, How about Den Of Liars! in forum [Ticker] | |||
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Genesis Posts: 66462 Incept: 2007-06-26 
Royal Flush! 
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http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archi....
---------- I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife? I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me 2008-09-23 09:31:14
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Viamede Posts: 463 Incept: 2007-09-17 
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Calls of the impending storm usually mean one thing...you are being robbed right now...right under your horizon glazed eyes. 2008-09-23 09:53:15
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Fletchjr Posts: 776 Incept: 2007-07-26 
Minnesota
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I like the suit, Gen. I know it doesn't make you any smarter but you are looking smart. 2008-09-23 10:21:56
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Wisc-xc Posts: 4479 Incept: 2007-07-14
outside chicago
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Looks like there's a better than 50% chance that King Henry's totalistic, everything done in the dark reign is over before it has started. I'm not sure they--he-- even wants this bill to go through unless he can continue to practice the same **** that got us here: no sunlight whatsoever on the nature and value of these toxic assets. The grassroots opposition to this power grab is gaining steam by the minute (think the deep-sixed so called fait accompli Immigration Bill). That's not to say we won't get a bill, but it's clearly not going to be the "clean version" the pigmen and their poster boy, King Paulson, were pinning for. 2008-09-23 10:39:40
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Brucelee Posts: 835 Incept: 2007-09-12 detroit, mi
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karl, i don't know how there is any question whether it's going to pass or not. it's my understanding they are working out the details and not whether or not it'll pass. also, they are rewriting laws set in place without congressional approval so it's hard to see what we can do. i'm doing my part beleive me but this is out of control.
---------- "There is no way it can be allowed to be more prosperous than those it has failed, and those who pay its salaries." - Bozonian 2008-09-23 10:54:52
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Lemonaid Posts: 3511 Incept: 2008-01-20
Detroit Metro Online
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I think J6P can wrap his head around a 700 billion dollar give away to wealthy investment bankers !
---------- "There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion. The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved." Ludwig von Mises 2008-09-23 10:56:29
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Tienkou Posts: 2081 Incept: 2007-09-09
Connecticut Online
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Our politicians spend more time planning out and debating a $100 million orphan drug bill than they will on a $700 Billion bank bail out. They will deserve what they get. ---------- Barack Hussein Obama - The last President of the First American Revolution. The US Congress has abdicated its role as a governing body. The most dangerous man is the one with nothing left to lose. Our government is making more of them everyday. 2008-09-23 11:02:07
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Bluntfacts Posts: 693 Incept: 2007-10-09 Las Vegas, Nevada
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In todays Ticker, Karl wrote... "Oh, how much of an increase in taxes? To put this in perspective, in order to balance out the new deficit spending individual income tax rates would have to DOUBLE." Perhaps a different approach is needed. I believe that in your state of Florida, there is an intangibles tax. I am no expert, but it seems to basically be a tax on the money (numbers on statements) that people don't really use anyway. Plenty of people have much more money than they truly need. A mandate of either donate some or have some confiscated could help reduce the systems liability. Anyway, now the fun starts. Hank, Ben and Chris speak very well, from a PREPARED script. Even Ben did not say "um". But soon, questions will be posed by the senators and no scripted answers are available. It very well could be the best REALITY TV ever. ---------- "Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964. 2008-09-23 11:17:04
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Morgan Posts: 91 Incept: 2008-02-29
Wisconsin
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I was so upset by Former Fed Governor Mishkin's remarks on CNBC today I e-mailed him. His e-mail address is : fsm3@columbia.edu if anyone else is interested.
2008-09-23 11:39:45
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Growngfree Posts: 228 Incept: 2008-03-17
Mid Atlantic
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A weekend ago...when the fates of Lehman and Merrill were under frantic debate...MSM reported they were trying to figure out a way to create a "bad bank" to take on all the crap, so the other banks could become "good banks." Looks like they found a way...the US Treasury will become the "bad bank," and we are the shareholders. In fairness, perhaps the bad paper will not show the degree of loss we all fear, but it is certainly a crap shoot, and worse, one undertaken in the dark.
---------- Hope is never lost 2008-09-23 11:44:25
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Bozonian Posts: 13051 Incept: 2007-09-01
PFT - Pure F'n Tin
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So, if the banks are that desperate, can't the U.S. Congress impose just about any conditions it wants including 90% equity ownership, no bonuses etc? They can also impose mandatory lending "You lend out 90% of your capital or you're gone". The other thing is, if the banks are reluctant to loan, why not let the Fed loan directly with the banks doing the origination and servicing. They get the commissions but the Fed bears the load. This whole thing is being made much more complicated that it is. It seems to me some special interests are being protected. If the American taxpayer is supposed to be the beneficiary then there are NO other beneficiaries. Everyone else must "take one for the team" and that's that. ---------- If deficits don't matter, then the Federal Government can borrow the money it needs and stop taxing the citizens. Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice. Last modified:
2008-09-23 11:56:53 by bozonian
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Bluntfacts Posts: 693 Incept: 2007-10-09 Las Vegas, Nevada
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What a surreal day this is so far. The Skeletor's head is glistening. More Americans are probably watching Oprah, where Suze Orman is going berserk. Of course the show is about the mortgage market; foreclosures; etc. Imagine that. The financial crisis on Dr. Phil last week; Oprah this week; and even somewhat covered on the late-night circus shows like Letterman or Leno. It just goes to show that a LOT of things go on while many people think nothing is being done. Sure, these are just TV shows. But...it gets people talking. And thank goodness for technology. Congress On Demand on cnbc.com; recordable TV; and RAM i.e. having over 30 windows open right now and connected at 10mps. It really is amazing. ---------- "Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964. 2008-09-23 12:26:19
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Krzelune Posts: 1855 Incept: 2007-10-08
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Blunt, Your using way beyond your share of windows and bandwidth. Someone needs to confiscate it and give it to some window and bandwidth needy folks.
2008-09-23 12:30:40
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Bluntfacts Posts: 693 Incept: 2007-10-09 Las Vegas, Nevada
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Going way off topic here, but don't these Senate hearings take a break? To be blunt, no one has to take a **** or even have a smoke? Seriously, unless I am missing something, Hank & Ben & Chris & that other guy no one wants to talk to apparently only get bottled water? ---------- "Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964. 2008-09-23 13:05:57
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Margincalltime Posts: 811 Incept: 2008-04-01
NJ
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It's punishment for trying to push through a $700B bill that throws taxpayer cash down a black hole. This does nothing to address true transparency (the root of the confidence crisis) and moves these instruments from one shadow to another, with probably someone like PIMCO or Blackrock doing the servicing/asset mgt for the government at the same time keeping MS and GS in business. This charade has to stop.
2008-09-23 13:22:08
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Bluntfacts Posts: 693 Incept: 2007-10-09 Las Vegas, Nevada
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Student loans? Credit card debt? To Karl, you can take this and run with it; or just discard it. But I get the feeling that we (they) are essentially talking about a new entity. I am calling it Pawn Shop USA. ---------- "Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964. 2008-09-23 13:30:38
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The_headsman Posts: 6 Incept: 2008-09-22 Banned
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Live SBC beaming into a rural garage in Middle Earth, England. I love technology - shame the wind-turbine construction in the garden has fallen foul of little Hitlers. Again. Anyway, seems to me Paulson & Co. would just LOVE to stand up and scream, "Listen, you dumb-****s! I got my orders and I'm crispy burnt toast if I don't comply and they don't complete. As it is, I am explaining to you in great detail that we don't know of any of the detail you are asking us to detail. Our best chance is a crazy experiment in fall-out contingencies and an auction that happens to resemble a lucky (or unlucky) tombola at a county fair. I appreciate all the other great ideas that are being thrown at us, some are ingenious! But if they don't fit my orders, they're non-starters. The thing is, we see a different problem to what everyone else sees. Therefore, our best guess at a SOLUTION is bound to be different. Get it?! Good. Can I take a pee now?" Am I being unfair? 2008-09-23 13:36:02
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Margincalltime Posts: 811 Incept: 2008-04-01
NJ
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By the way, one other thought, I don't doubt in the least the veil of secrecy this plan is wrapped up in is in an effort to allow those in trouble to "write up" the value of the bad assets on the balance sheets. Now whether that is a function of the mechanism KD mentioned or not, I'm sure some form of this concept is certainly in play. I could certainly envision the govt overpaying for these assets and the "marks" are written up. To a question as to how these things are valued and potential conflicts of interest, while its Paulson's "intention" to limit the sales to regulated institutions, what prevents them from recycling assets already sold off to the likes of Citadel and others? For example, Citadel buys or has already bought (like their purchase from Etrade) assets for 22c on the dollar, sells it to GS for 25 or 30c on the dollar, who then sells it to the govt (or US taxpayer would be more appropriate) for 50c on the dollar, rinse and repeat...this is fraught with loopholes out the yin yang (or use another more colorful phrase)
2008-09-23 13:39:08
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Bluntfacts Posts: 693 Incept: 2007-10-09 Las Vegas, Nevada
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To The_headsman For just post #2, that is some GREAT wordings; and I don't say that lightly. One thing I really like about a forum such as this is that I can read what people in OTHER COUNTRIES think about this whole mess we here in the USA are in. I was laughing because "crazy experiment" reminded me of many years ago, when I could to the local store and buy little containers of what I believe were part of the Gilbert chemistry set. Mix the wrong ones and it could be a PROBLEM. ---------- "Will someone come on TV and tell the truth about how bad it is". Jim Cramer August 2007. "We can change the focus to a soft blur; or sharpen it to crystal clarity" The Outer Limits 1964. Last modified:
2008-09-23 14:00:32 by bluntfacts
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Growngfree Posts: 228 Incept: 2008-03-17
Mid Atlantic
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Easy... 1) The banks have already lent out 125% of their capital. They have virtually nothing in capital reserves, which FDIC and others know all too well. 2) Their balance sheets hang on mainly "mystery meat," sweeps, blue sky, bs. 3) Many banks, including big ones,are essentially insolvent. 4) FDIC will go way past broke trying to handle this, and the dough will come from the treasury and we will be left with, instead of a [BOLD]suspected[/BOLD] broken banking system, an obviously [BOLD]hopelessly[/BOLD] broken system. How would any additional capital be willing to flow into such banks? 5) The only solution they see is to continue the con game by off-loading the bad debt and hopefully restoring both confidence and competence/willingness to lend. I don't think it will work, I don't think we should try, and maybe, just maybe Congress will decide to stop the music and let some end up without chairs. As long as the music (almost wrote mucus...might have been more apt!) is playing, some semblance of order [BOLD]appears[/BOLD] to be dominant. Correct me please if I am misunderstanding. ---------- Hope is never lost 2008-09-23 14:08:47
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Growngfree Posts: 228 Incept: 2008-03-17
Mid Atlantic
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Furthermore, I ****es me off beyond reason hearing the housing sub-prime issue being touted as the CAUSE of all this. IMO it was just the straw that broke open the whole mess of unconscionable credit expansion... It's the credit bubble stupid, and the mbses, cdos, and all the alphabet soup of packaged debt was just a way of moving it on so more could be created. What were these people thinking? Or smoking?
---------- Hope is never lost 2008-09-23 14:12:21
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Yaldor Posts: 1309 Incept: 2008-05-17
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BB wants to pay above market prices for the assets: http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/.... ---------- For every crash the probability of someone showing that he predicted it is near 1 . For every prediction of an imminent crash the probability of it being correct is almost zero 2008-09-23 15:07:29
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Yanno Posts: 487 Incept: 2008-02-07 London
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KD - I haven't posted on here for a bit. Also as a Brit/European, I'm both a victim of the same catastrophic nonsense as yourself, and a rubber-necking voyeur at American carnage. Well - for a couple of days perhaps until our own Central Bankers unveil their play.... I do want to say that, whilst politically I may not always agree with you, I think your economic analysis has been courageous, highly astute, and often groundbreaking. It has put MSM (on both sides of the Atlantic) to shame. But then you and the residents of Ticker Forum are fully aware of this.... ---------- "Paulson's press conference was just a polite way of informing the American people that the seat of power has shifted from Washington to Wall Street. It's a banker's coup." Mike Whitney "Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that b Last modified:
2008-09-23 15:29:29 by yanno
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Genesis Posts: 66462 Incept: 2007-06-26
Royal Flush!
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Thanks...
---------- I used to play flute; I wonder if I can play a fife? I incite prosecutors to create "Bubba Sausage Parking Lot" projects Darrell Issa has a middle finger and knows how to use it - Me 2008-09-23 15:53:20
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Leraconteur Posts: 7189 Incept: 2007-12-03
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Suit is good. Like it or not, on TV, looking the part is essential to being believed. 2008-09-23 16:06:14
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